Canon 5d Mk II Noise in Low-ISO Images

Here is a collection of images I have been working at with the Canon 5d Mk II where I have noticed some interesting noise and banding patterns even at the base ISO of 100/200. The culprit seems to be when shooting in raw, converting in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) and activating the highlight tone priority option while shooting. This yields a “pushed” images that ACR does not develop well. See what you think. These samples are with noise reduction turned off and with some careful processing in noise ninja as well as the noise removal in ACR these issues do become partially moot…

So I have been working with some of the massive raw files out of the 5d Mk II and I have noticed something in Adobe Lightroom. Check to the pic: Difference shows at 100% in shadow area at ISO 100 (Canon 50mm f/1.4 @ 4, 1/60s exposure handheld, nothing clinical) A clear difference in noise pattern in library vs. develop mode. I have not noticed this behavior in any of my other camera’s Raw files… Is there a different setting, to me the Raw file in “Library” mode looks blotchy and horrid…while the same file in develop look pristine…

Very interesting. Did I mention the 5d Mk II Raw files are huge? I don’t know how people work with the Phase One or Leica S2 MF Raw files…

tumblr_kyiwfdlb6w1qadne1o1_1280Cropped in a bit. I turned the noise reduction off on this Raw image from Canon 5d Mk II. — This was shot at ISO 200. The chroma noise and vertical banding are quite high IMO. Not really sure what’s going on.

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Properly-exposed 5d Mk II ISO 200 Image with noise and banding…

See the below screenshot to see what I am talking about…

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5d Mk II – vertical color and banding noise at ISO 200. This image is opened in ACR and set to 0 exposure comp, 0 brightness, 0 contrast etc etc. as plain and vanilla as possible with no noise reduction or sharpening.

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Canon 5d Mk ISO 1250, HTP/ALO on, opened in ACR, everything set to 0, no sharpening or noise reduction, 1 pass with noise ninja. Will definitely shoot with Highlight tone priority and auto-light optimizer off from now-on…

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Here is the final version color matched and sharpening in Lightroom.

Canon 5d Mk II | 50mm f/1.4 lens, 1/40s @ f/2.2, ISO 1250

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Here is another example of the 5d Mk II noise at low ISO while using Highlight tone priority and auto lighting optimizer while shooting in raw. The first crop (100%) is the CR2 file opened in preview, notice it is underexposed by quite a bit, despite looking properly exposed when metering in the camera. I then opened in in ACR in Photoshop and clicked ‘Auto’ for exposure, while turning off noise reduction, effectively giving me a ISO 400 image that is an ISO 200 image pushed 2.0 or more stops. The banding and chroma noise is very apparent, and although the image looks properly exposed in the histogram, adding all of that brightness and exposure comp killed my shadows and mid-tones.

Note to self, HTP and ALO off from now on. Lesson learned…

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Although with proper noise-reduction techniques you can get some really high quality high-ISO shots too, you just have to exhibit bad technique or improper image processing to get the noise at base ISO…

This is a shot technique that I have seen time and again. The slightly-skewed-female-getting-ready-in-the-mirror shot. (Usually used for a bride getting ready for a wedding). Just got the new camera today to try out (Canon 5d Mk II) and 50mm f/1.4 lens. Surprisingly this was shot at ISO 2000, which to me is pretty amazing…

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Now just for kicks let’s look at a file from the Canon 1d Classic (4.1 Mpix, 1.3 x crop sensor — but the pixels are *much* bigger than those on the 5d Mk II). Look at how clean this is at ISO 320, albeit with really limited resolution compared to the Mk II -

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You do trade off noise for resolution it seems. BYW the Canon 1d Classic is an *amazing* camera if you can deal with the 4.1 mpixels… The Auto Focus is amazing and the images have a certain film-like quality to them. Hard to put words too. I sort of miss mine.

Also to keep us routed in reality here is an ISO 1600 crop of another small sensor camera – the Olympus E-P1 @ ISO 1600. Compare that to the ISO 2000 image of Annie in the mirror. We have a tendency to always complain about something without looking back at what we accepted at a given value in the past. Don’t get me wrong the noise performance of the 5d mk II is AMAZING considering its pixel density.

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And now we can get really crazy for no reason…here is one with a Mamiya RB67 Medium Format film camera and fuji velvia 50 film.

Sample shot and scanned with my Mamiya RB67 Camera and Fuji Velvia RVP 50 Film

You can still buy 120 film and get it developed at walmart! The velvia is a bit more because it is slide film but negative film can be developed at Walmart for a few cents a frame!

Here is a forum that tells you the best process for getting your film developed at Walmart. Most camera stores send the film out to Fuji to get it processed anyways so you can pay $1.20 a roll to get it developed through Walmart or $10.00 to get the same service at a camera store…your choice. I find it takes 10-14 days quite a bit slower than the SD card reader developing, but it is worth it.

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Talk about smooth at base ISO…

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Guide Guy - Thank you very much for your help, this site has been a great break from the books,

Caml - Hi,
thank you for this enlightening post ! about this noise stuff, I’m not sure to understand. You said :
“you just have to exhibit bad technique or improper image processing to get the noise at base ISO…” does this mean that the low ISO banding appears only in such conditions, or it happens no matter what if ALO/HTP are on ?
I planned to buy a 5D2, but this banding issue is holding me off. What I need to understand are the conditions where it appears. So based on what you said :
1) with ALO/HTP, no matter what
2) does it appear in high/contrast situation as well ?
3) if you are in high contrast (HTP/ALO off), and try to PP the dark area by pushing the light, so you get the banding ?
thank you for your answer,
regards
Caml

Daniel Valente - As much as I can figure, as soon as you turn ALO/HTP on, you get banding and shadow noise at even the base ISO. This is one of the primary reasons that I sold my 5d2 and now shoot with the 1d Mk III. The 1d Mk III is clean up to ISO 1600. Partially it is due to the size of the pixels. 10 MP on a 1.3 sensor, the pixels are much larger than 21 MP on a FF sensor. When you and in all the rest of those pixels you get more noise; the ALO/HTP brings that out to a greater degree.

To address your questions, at least in the 5d2 that I had,
1) Yes – without some noise reduction in post (like noise ninja) I always saw visible noise at base ISO, which was really unacceptable to me.
2) With good, high-contrast lighting, the banding and noise was minimal
3) I think shooting in raw with HTP/ALO off and exposing to the right (without clipping highlights) is the best way to shoot the 5d2, at least as far as IQ. The advantage of the HTP/ALO, for a wedding photog at least is more latitude in exposure and dynamic range while shooting in tough situations in JPEG where proper exposure is more crucial.

Catherine - I am glad to have finally found this post as I feel like I’m losing my mind with my 5Dii. I have had it since March 2009 and I have always had problems with noise at ISO 200 and higher. My husband just bought me the 1Ds Mark III and I AM IN LOVE! I packed up my 5Dii and sent it to Canon to see if they can find a problem, but when I get it back, I’ll be turning these settings off. I also use ACR to edit (as well as CS4). I just can’t handle the amount of noise I was seeing. The 1D seems to be working in an incredible fashion compared to what most rave about with the 5Dii. I just want mine to work properly… is that too much to ask?
Thank you so much for putting this out there. I hope they can fix the issue, but if they can’t at least I have found an amazing camera body that works perfectly.

Reto - Hi

I am also using the 5D Mark II and I also experienced similar noise issues. Very good article. Thanks for sharing.

Greetings from Switzerland

Piers - Thanks for posting. I am also still having these low ISO vertical banding problems… on completely defocused, normally exposed images at ISO 50, on firmware 2.0.7
I even sent the camera into Canon USA, and they denied there was problem with the sensor.

is anyone here aware of any solutions or acknowledgments for this issue yet??
23/02/2011

Daniel Valente - Well the solution for me was switch to nikon… but I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear. Actually If I were still shooting Canon, I’d just use the original 5d bodies or 1ds Mk II and deal with the downsides (small screen, poor screen on the 5d, NIMH battery on the 1ds Mk II etc…)

that sucks though re: you 5d2 at ISO 50…

Ryan - I am really unhappy all my pictures are blurry at 100%! I’m using 2.0.8 firmware. The detail is not super sharp like I’ve seen in other people’s photos. No idea what to do… March/2011 I can post some …

RReed - I had the same type of vertical banding on my 5DMark ii. This seemed to only happen when using Raw mode.
Solution:
Sent camera to canon factory repair. Sent examples of photos 100% crop showing vertical banding.
And these comments from other 5D Mark ii users
The banding seems to be pattern noise with a regular 4-column interval (4-column frequency). 5D Mark ii has 4-channel readout the output signal amplifier can be calibrated. The camera was returned in a few days banding gone.
$180.00 for fix $20.00 for shipping

Jerry Kooyman - Thanks for posting this article!

I have notice exactly the same problem with my canon 5D mkII. It’s a shame shame shame! I’m gonna sell my Canon and switch to Nikon D700. I’m done with Canon.

I still using medium format film on a 30 years old mamiya these days. The best you can have! The shades and highlights with Kodak portra film is amazing… even better that any digital camera.

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